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"Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" was published 61 years ago today, and since then has served as an excellent way to weed out potential romantic partners"
I found a copy in some holiday accommodation and tried it. Gave up about 150 pages in and finished it flicking through it. Implausible characters created purely to personify an opinion, no plot, no story development. It's crap.
My wife saw me reading it and didn't leave me.
When I worked at a bookstore, one day a teenaged girl came in looking for "Atlas Shrugged," because her boyfriend insisted she read it. The store employees chanted, "Dump him, dump him, dump him."
If you're not captivated by the ideas in "Atlas Shrugged" at the age of 16, you have no drive. If you're not convinced it's bullshit at the age of 30, you have no heart. #AynRand
I'll talk about The Fountainhead with someone all day, but if they try to claim Atlas Shrugged is anything other than an overdose of beating-you-over-the-head, nihilistic Objectivism I walk away.
this is the only book that I've wanted to throw across the room when I was half way through it. I finally finished it and then I actually did throw it across the room.
Old joke: what’s the diff between Atlas Shrugged and LOTR? One is unrealistic puerile fantastic drivel of the worst sort... and the other is a story with orcs in it.
Many, many aeons ago I did a stretch working in a book store.
My already tattered faith in humanity was finally swept away when I saw the sheer volume of Anne Rice, Tom Clancy, and Ayn Rand that flowed through that place.
Rush grew up and so can you.
Ayn Rand would punch u in the face for trying to steal her ideology for your own ;) Oh well, she took her Social Security money when she realized sales of her shitty books wouldnt cover her medical bills when she was elderly.
+Stefan Molyneux sorry, youll have to post a link or something.. its not my job to prove your point for you. if its some bullshit like 'she was just operating in the system she was given" just save it...the fact remains, she hated the idea of SS and even tho she had this hatred for social programs, she still used it. you can say it was her right to use it, and id agree.. she paid into it after all, whether she wanted to or not... but, since the state had such a program she avoided being poverty stricken by mounting doctors bills as she got older and her health declined.. so, seems like the program worked for her and in doing so proves that social programs DO save people in their old age. the program did what it was supposed to do. its late where i am, so might be a while before i can comment on something youve posted back in reply.. and i work most of the day tomorrow so.. maybe tomorrow night (for me).. <3
I was in a discussion on Facebook today about the merits of a Universal Basic Income, feeling frustrated, as you can well imagine. Most of those that supported this idea, do not have jobs, and many are on disability. I offered the dozen or so people on the thread $100 to read Atlas Shrugged, and another $25 to read We the Living. Surprisingly I had two takers! We worked out a way for them to send me reports to prove that they are actually reading the books, and I will be paying them $25 for each quarter read. I honestly did expect anyone to accept my offer, and I suspect they won’t actually finish. However, I made the offer, and I’m going to live up to my end of the bargain, I will consider it a tithe of sorts, or a donation toward the public good. Seriously, I consider it money well spent. Interesting that the three guys who said that they were on disability refused to take me up on the offer. These are the same people who were arguing that@ universal basic income would not de-incentivize people from working.
You can’t make this stuff up.
I don't get your counter argument to objetivism. Disclaimer: I'm not totally convinced it to be right or true but as I undestood Atlas Shrugged, morality it's not solely based on personal benefit. I mean it is part of it but also is the process through which you personally benefit. The Obamas or Clintons would be the James Taggarts or the ones in the gov (can't recall their names now). It's clearly stated that you can benefit personally in the short term by doing amoral things but the byproduct of such way is harming other individuals. So the moral objetivist would claim that it's only moral if personal benefit it's not done through zero sum game, but through mutual benefit of individuals by free willed exchange of value. It's exactly the point of Galt, D'Anconia, and Danneskjold, that the only reason the looters are getting away with breaking moral objetivism is because people like Rearden and the other producers allow it. Without them, they are nothing. Without them, their personal benefit isn't possible. The means by which they get richer and richer eventually lead to stopping the engine of the world. And thus, in the longterm, their personal benefit actually becomes their doom. I get that in reality things aren't this clean. I have my concerns with moral objetivism, but I don't think your point is a fair critique to it.
That beeing said, I'v only recently known of you through your work on NZ wiith Lauren. I'm gonna be devouring your content. Keep it up!!
Pd: Every thought on this is welcome, I don't believe stefan will see this hahaha
"When *Negros* don't read..."
And yet, it's the RIGHT who are the racists!
Where is the outrage here? Hillary Clinton made a joke about "they all look alike", referencing someone mistakenly attributing an Eric Holder quote to Cory Booker. I honestly don't think the joke is anything to get out of sorts over (it was mocking a racist stereotype) but imagine is TRUMP said that? It would be all over the news with that as PROOF of Trump's and the GOP's racism.
Arn Rand is wonderful for people who love it all spelled out in black and white with no ambiguity just like the real world right. It's not literature; it's dogma. Unreadable propaganda to anybody who is truly thinking about verisimilitude as an criteria.
DNC members are actively funding the caravan, trying for collateral damage for all Americans, because they will destroy America if you do not elect them to destroy America. DNC ,,,, when power means more then the country doing well.
I think the basic theme of ATLAS SHRUGGED is that guarding the drones is a waste of time. Once you shrug that burden off of your shoulders it becomes a free fall for them toward their own self destruction, and a self realization that you are free of carrying around those who refuse to change enough to even help themselves.
+Stefan Molyneux Actually it is an argument. I just haven't provided any examples yet.
The reason "her characters are unrealistic" isn't an argument is because it's rejecting the content of her philosophy on emotional grounds.
I've watched your critical videos on Objectivism and you don't understand it. That's not my emotion, that's my perception.
So my argument is that you shouldn't be defending her because your views and ideas are opposed to hers fundamentally.
Stefan, it is communism that says you can not increase your IQ after you are an adult. Why? Picking and choosing through the state run schools who gets a job and who does not, (because communism can only provide some jobs, for a while). They think you are defined as a person at the age of 18. Well, I am glad I did not grow up under total communism, or I would not have had a job after HS. Fortunately, I pounded the college books for about 12 years while working, and became one of the sharpest Engineering students in several later classes, and I could not believe it.
I am telling you Stefan, as long as the mind is not suffering from a disease, it can build concepts and improve intelligence, (with a healthy environment). I lived it, not in any book you read. The healthy mind is like the body; the more you work it out, the better it gets also. I shut you down at 56:14. I know what is coming next, the race/IQ factor. I guess some people never learn.
P.S. iq does not tell how smart you are but rather the speed and difficulty of how you learn. if you have 300 iq and been sitting on your ass staring at a wall your whole life you will still be dumber than someone with an iq of 80 who has studied things his entire life.....
When I was 22, I was introduced to Atlas Shrugged by a 19 year old girl who had, until recently, been a Roadie for Rush. She had been handed a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Geddy Lee and We'd read a chapter or so together every night!
I had grown up working hard, selling Christmas cards door to door when i was 9, paper route at 11 and twice I'd tried to start my own business. Until I read this book, everyone in my world kept telling me when I was successful I had to give to others around me, I wasn't allowed to keep it for myself. Even though my brother and sisters didn't plod through the snow to sell Christmas cards, they were as deserving of my money as I was!
Since reading Atlas Shrugged, I found my own path. Those who leveraged me for their own gain have fallen away and I went on to successfully develop 12 published video games and the Custom Web Development/Business Consulting business I run now has been going for just over 20 years!
About Ayn Rand's works being representative of an ideal, and not actual people...I've made the joke, back during pottery class, that porcelain is the way it is because it is free of any and all contaminants of the clay body that would traditionally give it it's color...and what do we do with this pure type of clay? We shit in it...quite literally. What do you think your toilet is made of? There is a lesson to be learned here.
stefan i like you and believe you are intelligent enough to understand this..... as I understand you are atheist, I would love it if you could help take the torch of atheism means your smarter away from the mass of people who believe it as such...... religion or lack thereof does not in any way shape or form correlate to intelligence because many many people seem to want to wave that as intellect...
What do you mean there is no correlation between intelligence and politics, or intelligence and belief?
Politician always use their intelligence to get you to vote for them, so they can gain power and enslave you, this is the same intelligence religious group used to gain power like gods and manipulate its follower.
Heck! even God created Adam to rule. How would Adam rule if he has no intelligence?
How would he get intelligence if Eve did not gave it to him?
How would you even walk if your brain doesn't command the body to walk?
Do you just talk without thinking first?
If so, then I would agree you are confuse.
you sound like your jumbling together to make a point and for the life of me i have no idea what it is..........my point was there is no correlation between intelligence and politics, or intelligence and belief....... second of all, if god is an omnipotent being which is what is suggested why would it not believe in itself..... that would literally be like not believing in your legs even though you walk, kick, feel them and see them........at this point i am just confused.....Yahweh is god not my god (that is my belief....)
You know God himself is an atheist, right? so, If you ask a God not having your god, aren't you making that God angry?
Shouldn't you follow the first law to avoid confrontation with a GOD? Who is your God anyway?
If you knew his views doesn't effect you, what makes you think your views will effect him? Don't you cancel each other's intelligence?
How does intelligence can shape into its form when water and oil doesn't mixed together?
Go buy a soap then maybe you will see the effect.
I always thought the train accident scene in Atlas Shrugged deserved more attention, as it truly addresses the root cause of our problems - the ignorant masses.
All the corrupt leaders and business leaders would be powerless against a better educated populous.
Single most influential author after God in my life. I read them in high school and it set the stage for self examination, responsibility, and accountability. At some point in my life I mostly stopped casting pearls to swine.
Atlas Shrugged was like a red-pill moment. Democracy is a sham. It only limps on because of productive people's tacit acceptance of their moral code of self-sacrifice. I think we're way beyond voting our way to change. Secession, free-private cities/new countries, or sea-steading, seem like the only viable solutions for people seeking freedom
I discovered Any Rand in the 80's. I read everything she wrote. Her philosophy and my theology had a lot of overlap...very enlightening. I was eager to share with those that I love. I was heartbroken when I saw that my parents and brother were unable to "get it". Atlas Shrugged does require a certain level of intellectual discipline to stick with it. Her writing is like an intellectual vacation.
Atlas Shrugged would have been a lot more effective if she had not spent so much time attacking religion. I've never experienced the version of religion she described. It was like she built a straw man that was easy to knock down.
The idea I wrestled with most was that it's wrong to be charitable. It helped me hone my beliefs about charity.
The only character I found to be likeable was Charlene. The rest were a mess. I loved the plot. I love the idea of the producers striking. That's the only way to stop the plundering.
I tried but shrugged off 'Atlas Shrugged.' People seem to like it, but I don't have faith in Ayn Rand. Objectivism fails to comprehend reality correctly I think. This is my inexpert attempt at critiquing it. Objectivism dislikes altruism because Communism depended on it, so altruism (like Communism) is bad. Christianity is said to also champion altruism, so that is bad too. However people are not this black and white. The traditional understanding of love is, that it has different aspects. There is a selfish aspect (what can this do for me?), but the interaction draws us more to that good so that we love it for it's own sake, not our own. So a selfless aspect of love develops. Individual interest and communal interest can co-exist and this is what love is in the traditional Catholic Christian tradition. Calvinism and Lutheranism however reject any selfish aspect of love (eros) and believe Christian love must be completely selfless (agape) so that altruism is its characteristic. Catholic love is more sophisticated and realistic I think (eros and agape). Objectivism I imagine is like the atheists who criticise Christianity, yet what they criticise is a mere caricature of the real thing. They do not illustrate a satisfactory understanding of theology.
So,many people in America are taking the step off the welfare platform onto the train of a job opportunity, this is fine, but as the train in the story goes, it may crash in a tunnel, the welfare platform is full of many future passengers.some people might think it’s better just to walk.
Remember that we are at the end of an era where the left had its stranglehold, the death throws of this old era is right now, but we are also at the birth pains of a new era. This is why the left have become so violent and crazy. When an old era is dying a new one is coming there will always be pain. Death throw pain and rebirth pain, but soon we will be celebrating a new awesome era. :)
Who needs mainstream media to make up their minds on things?! I need mainstream media to tell me what is HAPPENING in the world right now. I dont need mainstream media to give me their opinions. Opinions is something we all have. Opinions are biased. Opinions can be bought. Opinions can be used to fool people. Tell me what is happening and what has happened, and let me form my own opinions on it.
Kanye's mother would have listened to her son when he would have told her WHY he met with the president. CNN and other ultra biased left wing hacks NEVER listen to anyone who isnt a leftist, and they would NEVER give president Trump credit even if he saved the world. We all know they wouldnt credit him because they havent credit him a single time. So why should we even listen to them when they act like sinister children? You should form your own opinions and you should look up what people say and do instead of taking mainstream medias word for it. If you dont look things up then you are just eating up what some biased people are feeding you. Thats not what modern people with internet should be doing. We can look up things for ourselves and for our own opinion from the information we look at.
+Stefan Molyneux I will study him now. Every historical figure, I look into. I'm going back to the sources!
Let me tell you, your work does not go ignored. You are reaching people on a massive scale from every group.
Negro means black, it's latin, the feminine is Negra. You may be over analyzing it my friend.
The word is deeply apart of the Americana history, it has a very complex meaning. The beloved artist Amos Kennedy refers himself as a Negro American and Black American, (he reject the term African American for himself) his documentary is very interesting.
I have a love hate relationship with that book. I loved it! But reading it was like a battle with words that was kind of relentless and overbearing some times. I loved to read it on the bus a homeless guy used to give me such a lecture about how horrible Rand was and how that book was the reason for conservative greed and lack of empathy. I usually gave him a couple bucks for coffee after our lively debates in front of several complete strangers every morning.
thank you for reading Atlas Shrugged, I've never forgotten how wonderful that book is, though I do think I could stand to hear it again and I've never forgotten how wonderful that book is, though I do think I could stand to go through it again and will be picking it up at Audible.
I've always thought about it as a novel with the philosophy text sandwiched in the middle in the form of the John Galt radio address which unless I am mistaken is over a hundred and fifty pages, longer than most dedicated sociological texts.
Iron Man makes a very powerful argument for the sanctity of the individual, the rights of the creator in the value of a human in general.
Hank Rearden will always be a hero of mine, but I think the most profound personal lesson I saw in the book was the scene where the protagonist of go to a diner and a man Cooks them in an omelette, they're both taken aback by the quality of the meal, only later noticing that the man working as a cook and the diner is a famous academic, who had chosen to abandon his life's work because he didn't want the benefits of his creativity and ambition to be stolen by the looters... this ties so poignantly to the title that it forever cemented her work in my mind.
ironically, Bioshock is not a takedown of Atlas Shrugged, nothing Andrew Ryan did led to the Calamity that befell rapture, there was a Sci-Fi element to that part of the plot they could have just as easily taken place above ground in a normal society, but more than the damage caused by the plasmids, the subversion of Fontaine led to the fall of rapture. And what did he couches subversion in? Leftist politics. and in the ultimate irony which surely goes unnoticed to the sort of idiots that would make that kind of a tweet... Frank Fontaine AKA Atlas, the same person who equated empathy With Envy and disguised his own greed behind Sympathy for the poor, was also a criminal. simultaneously creating an underworld Empire while professing to be a man of the people... his actions contributed to the problems caused by the plasmids more than any other characters, including the brainwashing of the main protagonist. only a moron would miss this part of message..
the other obvious part that anyone could see, was it the industry and ambition of the Ayn Rand archetype, Andrew Ryan was what led to the achievement of rapture in the first place, the ambition of a single man led to a technological Marvel.
even if the message the developers wanted to send was one vilifying objectivism, the fact that they needed to write a cohesive story that could work in any narrative fashion required them to inadvertently tell the truth.
the only thing I really dispute them on is it a man like Andrew Ryan would not have sat complacently inside his office and played golf while his Empire fell around him.
par for the course for a leftist, pretending to be smart while ignoring the obvious messages and completely unable to apply critical thinking to understand the greater meaning of a story.
WalkAway March Oct. 26-28 Washington D.C- so many fed up Dems are sick of being lied to (finally) and are marching away from the cult like party. Republicans are not angels either but my god at least they defend our way of life through the bill of rights.
You really need to engage with the people who have read it, and who have criticisms of it. Because there are a lot of things wrong with it.
The Kool Aid drinkers want it both ways. They keep pestering everyone to read _Atlas Shrugged_, then they complain when the people who have read it have used their own minds to think about it and bring up points which conflict with Randian cult orthodoxy.
I think Nietzsche got it right when he wrote about Mans Philosophy. (To paraphrase as Nietzsche is deep or shallow). Take pure Consciousness without Humanity, now add Humanity, Consciousness is now prejudiced as life happens to the Man who is Conscious and he is not pure and has his own Lens. So nobody has the Panacea, we can disagree it is wise too.
The metaphore of the dogs sheep and wolves is an ancient soldiers metapher which is alive in our military today. The grass eaters have the luxury to hate the dogs because the dogs provide that luxury. The dogs defend the sheep because those they love are sheep as well as they once were. The wolves may look like sheep and may appear to other sheep as just a sheep. Only the dogs know the wolves.
I can see your disappointment when you read the comments on twitter about Rand. The thing to recognise is that they have that luxury provided to them by people like us. They are with 90% of the populations intelectual capability, ypu are not. There are alot who see beyond the vail and the numbers are growing daily.
Materialisem is a great lie. The world is not as we have been told it is. What suprises me about you is your inability to think and analyse not only outside the matrix but the box itself. Question for you. If there is nothing to be made of extra terrestrial contact than why the interest in it by the government and the interest in its suppression?
Reguardless if you believe or not, isn't it curious that soo much human energy is devoted to this question? Mathematically we know that extra terrestrial civilizations must exist. Than you have the disclosures, although misinformational they are released because of some hidden truth of some relational importance. You know how intelligence and mass mind control works right? Project mickingbird was not a fiction and if you think the project is defunct, I ask if you've watched cnn lately. Classic mind control techniques.
Love your work and one day i will debate you on the existence of God.
Ok so someone help me on this. Just knocked around the net a bit and found Stefan's wiki page. It happens. Sure not the best source on information. The last bit is about cult accusations. Seriously a cult. Ive been a fan and loved the show for a few years now. I didn't hear about this foDOO thing till tonight. I've never gotten this feeling from him, and most of these people talking about his "cult" have pretty vague stories. I dont want to leave or "divorce" my family because of his podcasts. Just get rid of terrible people from your life. Its pretty damn confusing. Most of the cult stuff ends about 2 years or so ago? what gives? Someone throw me a bone!
Read The Fountainhead in high school over 30 years ago. I can't quite remember what it was about other than about an architect and a fairly weird girlfriend he had. I really need to reread it. However listening to all those liberals make it eeotic comments about Atlas Shrugged made me want to go pick it up. I just got it on Amazon and it is wonderful! I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been able to appreciate this stuff in high school, but that's so true of about everything we're forced to read in high school that's usually beyond our years of wisdom.
31:40 watch Stefan attempt to make an argument from authority. Stefan I love you but this segment was basically you being hurt that people don't like what you like. Not to say I don't enjoy watching people get butthurt and rationalize their positions, but not your best moment. (I haven't read Ayn Rand yet.)
I mentioned this book recently in your comment section. Now I'm wondering if it was my comment or the anniversary of the book that inspired the topic today??? Either way it's a great book fortelling our future if people who know nothing about just about everything continue to make decisions for you and I.
The Left wants this book to go away period.....
I just now finished 'Atlas Shrugged', Stefan. I have so many thoughts about it that I can't seem to prioritize them all just yet. So, this is my feeling about it as of the moment. First of all, I very much enjoyed the story. What it lacked in Hollywood luster, it made up for with intellectual/philosophical context and sub-context. As far as the philosophy of it (Ayn's objectivism) I think there are some valid points. However, (of course) it seems to me that those valid points should be less foundational and more consequential to a greater idea than objectivism itself. I think objectivism is an incomplete compilation of mostly good ideas constructed to fit an entire philosophy. I think it only appears to be complete, just as a snack that has been spread out on a plate to look like a meal. There's still something missing even though it does not appear that way. I'm literally less than 10 minutes from finishing the book so I will be pondering this much more specifically as time goes on. I'm going to re-read it, promptly. Thank you again Stef.
If you want a philosophical point of view on the current election cycle? How about mankind's desire for virtue. Many in the political system seem to have lost sight of virtue in a race to the bottom. Not to mention the fact of completely disorganized messaging, no doubt that Sun Tzu would advise them of their error: Something about the need for clean and clear structure instead of a social media PAC running its campaign. CNN runing their campaign and at least five billionaires running their own campaigns. Planned Parenthood is, of course, pushing their campaign but they are now in the mud with the release of "Gosnell: The Trial of America's Biggest Serial Killer," which they are working to censor. Their campaigns have managed to drive away the Catholics and Latin Americans with them. Are the Republicans going to pick up Boston? If they did CNN would go beyond what CNN's Don Lemon calls peek crazy. But who wants to vote for crazy?
Of special interest to me are Turkey's release pastor Andrew Brunson, his blessings and the possible change to the geopolitical landscape that may emerge if or as? Turkey adjusts its stands against Christians to be more favorable than Saudi Arabia's. I don't see a philosophical angle to these developments.
If you are in need of seeing a good deed in a weary world after the Ayn Rand twitter post; look at @MahgdalenRose twitter post, MY MESSAGE TO YOUNG DEMOCRATS. (From a Young Conservative.)
If Youtube were to allow bumper music as is allowed to broadcasters, I would suggest: for KING & COUNTRY - "The Proof Of Your Love" (Official Music Video)" ... or the more secular: what the world needs now is love sweet love
"Man's life as a standard of value is not enough to maintain an objective moral system."
This is the core reason why you are fundamentally evil instead of good. As Nietzsche correctly said, "That which does not belong to our life menaces it; a virtue which has its roots in mere respect for the concept of 'virtue,' as Kant would have it, is pernicious." By upholding a standard other than Man's life, you have made yourself an enemy of mankind.
Donald Trump is an Ayn Rand hero personified in the flesh, now that I think of it....just compare him with Roak or one of the heroes in fountainhead, the businessman who studies a new gig for years & proceeds like he has never heard of it, there is just a short paragraph about him. he gives the hero an architectural commission or something. Trump did the same thing with politics.
Don Lemon is a racist. Everyone uses the words " people of color" or "African American " or black people or just blacks but when they want to be racist they use the N word or the next best thing negro. Don Lemon looks at Kayne and does not see a person Don Lemon sees a negro. If I was Kayne I would tweet Don Lemon and tell him I found that very offensive.
If the character John Galt is such a superior man, why couldn't he attract a young, sexually inexperienced woman? Instead he gets his turn with an aging, sexually depreciating Dagny in her later 30's, after his college buddy and a mature businessman had their go at her first.
Given the way _Atlas Shrugged_ portrays sex, I can see why someone called it the "Incels' Bible."
Demorats obsessive need to control everything is no other than eugenics socialist control over society, policies, propaganda, you name it. they constantly try to make legislation that is barriers and fixed guides to modify your behavior and guide reproduction, relationships, and finances to whom their eugenics choose to favor.
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